| Author |
Message |
pebble
Farkler
Username: pebble
Post Number: 225
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, June 27, 2004 - 10:28 pm: | 
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Hi Guys,
Just read the manual
Oil temperature
80 ~ 90 °C
Engine idling speed
1,000 ~ 1,100 r/min
7. Install:
• CO/HC tester 1
(onto the exhaust attachment)
8. Measure:
• carbon monoxide density
Out of specification - Adjust.
Within specification - Measure the exhaust
gas when induction system is operating.
Carbon monoxide density (when
air induction system is not operating)
3.0 ~ 4.0%
Hydrocarbon density (when air
induction system is not operating)
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bounce
Trainee Pilot - Pro Farkler
Username: bounce
Post Number: 398
Registered: 10-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 04:48 pm: |
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"Air Injection": DynoJet Dyno Techs have the instructions to "clamp off" the air injection hose during dyno runs. This is for those reasons specified by Torch. |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 151
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 05:46 pm: |
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The Motorcycle Consumer News story:
In working with the carburated FZ1 (UK Fazer?), Dave Searle set the idle CO mixture at the header port to 4.7%, suggesting 4-5% was ideal. (June 04)
Working with the fuel injected BMW R1100S, they set the full load CO to 5.9%. This was the goal of their tuner, Chris Sanders of Dynojet and Techlusion experience. Full load in the 5-6% range.
I understand what the manual specification states. My question is whether optimum performance/drivability is a standard other than factory spec?
MCN, "Conventional wisdom states that in order to achieve optimal performance from a stock engine, there things have to occur: The engine has to breath better, additional fuel needs to be precisely metered to the engine, and the exhaust has to be expelled efficiently."
Opening up the airbox and dumping more fuel is no good unless the exhaust restriction is also reduced. Joos Project X (airbox) and EX (exhaust) may help the first and third goals of above. The Power Commander can tune goal two.
I beleive the CPU richens the mixture as the throttle is opened to the mid and upper range. Which may explain why MCN set idle at 4.7%.
Measuring the CO at the header with and without the PC program will give us a starting point. Until we know what the ideal at idle starting point is, the rest of the map may be less than ideal. The 'puter is not getting feedback from the O2 sensor. So the program is merely adding or subtracting from the starting point.
OK, factory spec with air injection clamped
= 3.0-4.0%. At idle.
Why does MCN set a goal of 4-5%? At idle.
Isn't this fun?
In San Diego,
BAGSTR |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 155
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 02:44 pm: |
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Dirty Business,
Number 1 thru 4 @ 16k miles. What do you think is the state of tune?
O2sensor
After CAT
What do the colors tell us?
In San Diego,
BAGSTR |
liquidsilver
FJR Top Gun
Username: liquidsilver
Post Number: 1132
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 06:31 pm: |
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Everything I've been led to believe suggests that
colors inside pipes tell us nothing, unless we
have a laboratory and know exactly what types of
fuel you've been running.
With different fuel additives and 'filler,' pipes
that have been run lean can be black or white,
just as pipes from a rich engine.
One tuner told me that he checks 4-into-1 systems
with a gas tester at the end of the muffler, a CV
dyno, and an infrared thermometer to read EGT
across all four pipes.
 |
torch
FJR Top Gun
Username: torch
Post Number: 854
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 01, 2004 - 09:23 pm: |
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It would appear that #3 is running the coolest, and #2 is the hottest, based on the amount of carbon condensed on the pipes. But you'll fix that with your gastester... |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 157
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 04, 2004 - 03:25 pm: |
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Welded Exhaust Ports
It turns out a good wrestler can remove the exhaust header with the radiator in place. The proceedure requires draining the rad, removing the two lower fan mount screws to allow rotation, releasing the two large rad hoses. This allows one to pivot the lower radiator away from header making room for 3/8" extension and torque wrench. If not for the need to remove the front fairing to get radiator out, the job would be done easier with the rad removed.
In San Diego,
BAGSTR |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 158
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 05:37 am: |
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Inching Forward,
OK, this Gunson thing does work. I ran a preliminary test and found results consistant over three trials. As suspected the carbon monoxide was not balanced.
#1 - 1.7% #2 - 1.7% #3 - 2.0 #4 - 1.2
Whether that difference is significate or not, who knows. My plan is to balance all 4 to the same level, just as I match the throttle synchronization. Now I have the tools to know what is going on.
In San Diego,
BAGSTR |
torch
FJR Top Gun
Username: torch
Post Number: 859
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 02:25 am: |
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Unbalanced and apparently too lean. |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 162
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 03:11 pm: |
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Gunson CO Adjustment
Well, the second time using the Gunson Gastester returned results more inline with expectations. The Gunson does require a bit of technique. I.E. be certain to let it run to clean air about 45 minutes to achieve consistant results. There is a nack to knowing how long to wait for the sample to settle before it starts to drift. But at the end of three hours work my clean air setting of 2.0% had drifted to 2.5%. That means my final readings were high by .5%. My final readings were 4.5% which adjusts to 4.0%, exactly the high limit per the manual. This is all with the 02 injector crimped.
The 02 injector has a significant impact on measurements. And there appears more air injected to #1 and #4 cylinders than 2 and 3. The CO measurements with the O2 operating were this:
#1-1.0, #2-2.2, #3-2.0, #4-1.4 All dropping from 4.5CO before the Gunson drift adustment subtracting .5. #2 resulting in 1.7 for example.
After a short 20min ride, I feel that certainly no harm has been done to throttle response. But Wally's map was excellent at the start.
In the end, I feel the Gunson is a valuable tool, if only to keep me out of the kitchen. The longer it runs, the more easy it is to use.
In San Diego,
BAGSTR |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 163
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 12:42 am: |
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180 miles later,
Creamy throttle response, still has the big hit on top.
Measured the exhaust at the cans. 0.0 CO. The Cats must still be handling the Carbon Monoxide.
I feel that some good has been done.
Factory Settings with O2 injector crimped:
#1=3.1 #2=2.3 #3=2.3 #4= 1.0
Out the cans = 3.3 CO
Final Settings with O2 crimped:
#1=4.0 #2=4.0 #3=4.0 #4=4.0
Out the cans = 4.0 CO
O2 Injector operating,out the cans = 0.0 CO
BAGSTR
Over and Out! |
cascadefj
Waiter ...errr I ordered it!!
Username: cascadefj
Post Number: 12
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 06:07 pm: |
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# BAGSTER Question. I thought that if you went into the CO mode the O2 injection was shut off? Is this what you were doing when you said you crimped the O2 or are you switching back out of the diagnostic mode and physically crimping the hose for the final measurements? |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 164
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 03:08 pm: |
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cascadefj,
In diagnostic mode the air injection is operating. My bike read approximately 4.0 CO with the air injection operating. Before adjustment with the air tube from the airbox to the air injector system pinched, the CO was approximately 3.0. One through four cylynders were not balanced, ranging from 1.0 to 3.1. I adjusted these all to 4.0. So, I could put the Gunson on a particular exhaust port, and adjust the CO at the dash up or down and see the result in about one minute.
A side benefit is the motor is definitely running cooler. Running if 85-90F (30C) the motor at cruise mode was two bars. When pushed, it went to three bars, then back down. I never saw 4 bars.
BAGSTR |
torch
FJR Top Gun
Username: torch
Post Number: 870
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 01:03 am: |
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Interesting. When I checked my bike, I'm sure the AIR system shut down when in CO mode. Wonder if it's a different software version in the ECU?
Anyway, do you happen to have before-and-after numbers on the CO adjustment screen? |
bagstr
Farkler
Username: bagstr
Post Number: 165
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 03:31 am: |
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Torch,
The conditions for my information are as follows:
The work was done with the Power Commander Connected. The bike in diagnostic mode. Individual ports welded to the headers. The Gunson Gastester moved from cylinder one to two etc. The first thing people will say is, "But you had the PC connected." Well yes, but at 1000 rpm idle speed all maps are at zero change to the ECU fueling. Whether the PC affected the operation of the air injection, I do not know. This is my first time performing these adjustments, so I could be remembering incorrectly. But I took careful notes and I believe my reading posted above were taken with the diagnostic mode in operation. I.E. showing the setting of a selected cylinder. Others have stated that the air tube from the airbox should be clamped while tuning. My CO samples are as follows:
Dash factory settings #1,#2,#3,#4 = 0 10 3 3
O2 Injector not crimped. 3.7- 3.9- 4.2- 1.7
End product out the can not measured
O2 Injector crimped 3.1- 2.3- 2.3- 1.0
End product out the can = 3.3
Two hours of sampling resulted in the following addition to each cylinder. +4 - +7 - +6 - +15
Ending with settings of 4 - 17 - 9 - 18
O2 measured 4.5 accross the board at the end. When I allowed the Gunson to settle in clean air as recomended the reading was 2.5, being .5 above the initial calibration of 2.0. Gunson instructs that the last measurements should be adjusted by this ending error. Thus I believe my final measurements to be 4.0 CO.
Interestingly to me, with the air tube crimped at the final settings, the output from the cans read 4.0 CO. When I released the clamp from the air supply tube, the CO went to 0.0. Also, the reading at the individual ports were:
1.0 - 2.2- 2.0- 1.4
It seems to me more air is added to outside cylinders for some reason. #2 & #3 appear to share some castings where the air tubes enter the valve cover, but I doubt they share the same passages. 2 & 3 must run hotter because of location.
It would be nice if I could post a spead sheet here. I'm not aware that is possible. Are all these numbers making sense?
Finally, the bike ran great before and after this tuning. I am very certain that the bike is running cooler now in 85-90F temps, two and three bars. But now I know what is happening inside. (Or so he thinks) I saved you the trouble.
Regards from San Diego,
BAGSTR |
cascadefj
Waiter ...errr I ordered it!!
Username: cascadefj
Post Number: 13
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 05:48 am: |
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Thanks bagstr, Appreciate all the info. I too wonder if there are different versions of the ECU software. I know something clicks under there when you go in and out of diagnostic mode. I thought it was a valve on the O2 system, at least that is where it sounded like it was coming from. Think it may be time to get the stethescope out. (and put in some exhaust ports, and get a gas tester, and ... and ... and convince SO that it is all extremely important. |
torch
FJR Top Gun
Username: torch
Post Number: 877
Registered: 09-2003
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 12:18 am: |
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You can post a table if it's comma delimited.
Something like this:
| #1 | #2 | #3 | #4 | | Dash factory settings | 0 | 10 | 3 | 3 | | O2 Injector not crimped | 3.7 | 3.9 | 4.2 | 1.7 | | O2 Injector crimped | 3.1 | 2.3 | 2.3 | 1.0 | | (End product out the can = 3.3) | | | | addition to each cylinder | +4 | +7 | +6 | +15 | | Ending with settings of | 4 | 17 | 9 | 18 |
(I posted directions long ago here)
It does show clearly that each cylinder should be adjusted individually, which is consistent with other results we have seen.
Your sudden drop to 0.0 CO out the end of the can may be an anomaly because of the way the Gunson's unit does it's testing. Remember, I mentioned previously that it does not measure CO directly -- it measures CO2. Since CO varies inversely to CO2 (up to stoichiometric) at a known ratio for ordinary combustion, it calculates CO based on CO2 readings. In other words, when CO2 is high, the machine "knows" CO is low and vice versa.
BUT: When you open up the A.I.R. circuit and provide extra oxygen to the cat converters, residual HC is also converted to CO2 (and H2O). The extra CO2 (higher than found in normal combustion) may fool the Gunson's unit into calculating 0.0 CO. I wouldn't really worry about the exact number out of the cans. One way or the other, the drop proves that the A.I.R. circuit and the cats are all working. The important numbers are the ones at the headers.
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